I tried to find contacts to talk about similar situations to that of Madeira, asking about legal immigration and how it was handled both at government level, and the experiences of locals and immigrants. Some responses are relevant, yet conflicting. Some interesting reading, but little about the big questions that I need to investigate.
The texts are shown in strict chronological order, marked with the contributors initial, to try and clarify crossovers between responses.
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Me: I live on the Portuguese island of Madeira. We are going through a transition of high immigration very quickly.
It’s causing problems with the locals (who don’t like immigrants).
I am looking to talk to people who have gone through this over a long term.
Problems need to be smoothed over, and so much more.
Is there anyone with long term experience in your community who can tell me about their experience?
Lots of questions, and tips needed. Or point me in the right direction please.
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HH 25-5: Hi. I’ve lived in Spain for many years, since childhood in fact. I can say definitely that if the Portuguese are anything like the Spanish people, the most important thing you can do is to learn the language. It doesn’t have to be University lecture level but at least to be able to hold a simple conversation. So many expats learn just enough to be able to order a coffee or a beer and then mix only with other expats. Latins are very communicative, if they can’t communicate with you they soon lose interest.
The locals won’t expect you to be fluent but they do appreciate it when you at least try to speak their language. Watch local telly, read Portuguese newspapers and, whenever possible, buy in the small local shops. It all helps. Regards.
Me 25-5: Thanks for responding. Personally I am fluent in Portuguese, and have been for many years. Nearly all other expats are not, and don’t even try except for some basics. Sometimes I feel that being fluent exposes me to all the horrors of the community and wish I hadn´t learnt the language at all. The portuguese are generally racist, these days even more so, and maybe the Spanish are far less. It´s that sort of info i need to start coming up with some solutions. Do you live all side by side in harmony now?
HH 25-5: Hi again. In my urbanization, on my street alone we have about 6 nationalities living side by side. On the whole urbanization, 168 houses, we have many more nationalities including several Scandinavian countries. We all get on, some better some worse. I do feel that the South coast of Spain is far more liberal and welcoming than other places, mainly because they are used to having neighbours of different nationalities since the late 1960’s. We don’t have a problem with many immigrants either as they all tend to go North, to Madrid or Barcelona where the work is.
Maybe Madeira being an island, they feel more protective of their culture. I believe the Balearic and the Canary Islands also have a bit of a problem with visitors.
Why not move to Southern Spain and be welcomed with open arms! Regards.
Me 25-5: thanks again, that’s really good to know. There is an island mentality here. it all sounds completely different for you. The extreme right here (your VOX) is now the 2nd biggest political party, and it is targeting immigration by spreading hate amongst the locals.
I intend to try and contact immigrants in the Balearics and Canary islands, if I can find contacts.
Many thanks for your contribution
HD 26-5: “The Portuguese are generally racist.”
The same could be said for many Spaniards, who often use the term “guiri.” There’s also a lot of antisemitism, particularly regarding Israel, and many people complained about Israel’s participation in Eurovision. Ironically, many also dislike Muslims. Additionally, there’s a tendency to blame foreigners for rising rents, even though the reality is that most speculators are Spanish themselves. People here can be very judgmental based on appearance — I’m fortunate to look more Spanish, which often gets me a smile, so I try to keep quiet. Honestly, I don’t think it’s any different in Spain.
HD 27-5:
“Sometimes I feel that being fluent exposes me to all the horrors of the community, and I wish I hadn’t learnt the language at all.”
To be honest, I’ve heard many Brits say the same in Spain. Often, people are better off not knowing what others are really saying. It sounds like Portugal is very similar. Sometimes, the charm of a country is simply absorbing the atmosphere and customs, without getting too deep into conversations. You don’t judge the people unless you can communicate in depth, and in a way, that’s often a blessing.
HH 27-5: Just a note to HD: the Spanish term “guiri” is not an insult. I was married to a Malagueño for 25 years and in the family, I was often called “la guiri”: It is generally an affectionate term for foreigners, much as Brits might call an American a Yank or Americans call English people Limeys. It is not meant to offend.
I do feel that different cultures often don’t understand each other. For example, interrupting a conversation or another person who is speaking is considered very rude in the UK. Here, in Spain, it is perfectly normal. Driving is another example, in the UK one would only use the horn if really necessary. Here it is used all the time. Raising one’s voice is another example. Here, in Spain, it is quite normal. It’s a Latin thing.
I have lived in Spain all my life and I’ve had Spanish nationality for nearly 40 years so I think I know what I’m talking about. I worked as a translator for the Andalucian Health Service for 21 years and we used to see (and hear) misunderstandings all the time but kindness and friendliness are universal traits that all humans can relate to. As is a good sense of humour.
HD 28-5: The term “guiri” has been prominently used in Málaga as part of anti-tourism protests. Locals have expressed growing frustration over the impact of mass tourism on housing affordability, gentrification, and the overall quality of life in the city. In June 2024, approximately 15,000 people marched under the slogan “Málaga para vivir, no para sobrevivir” (“Málaga to live, not to survive”). Additionally, anti-tourism graffiti and stickers have appeared throughout Málaga’s city center. Phrases like “A tu puta casa” (“Go f**ing home”) and “Apestando a turista” (“Stinking of tourist”*) have been spotted on walls and doors, particularly on buildings converted into tourist accommodations.
I know a few estate agents who have all told me that few Brits are buying here now. The majority of their clients, particularly those interested in rental investment properties, are mostly Spanish. Furthermore, if you’re not an EU citizen, you don’t get the same tax breaks — like offsetting expenses for wear and tear or agents’ fees — and VAT is also added on top. Some of the big buyers along the coast are people from other Spanish cities, such as Seville and Madrid. Brits are much further down the list these days, especially after Brexit.
Tourists are getting the blame — they do, of course, take short-term rentals — but like in most countries, it’s the foreigners who get the flak, even though they’re the very ones who keep the economy going.
My other point is that property in Spain has always been plentiful, mainly because of years of overbuilding. Just check sites like AltaVista: pick an area, and you’ll find loads of properties for sale at any time. It’s a bit like the Tulip boom — prices went crazy purely due to speculation. It’s not a simple case of supply and demand like in the UK, where the market is more sensitive. In Spain, sellers often just go for a price, and others follow suit, even if it means sitting on the property for a long time. It’s a bit of a Wild West.
Spanish property can be a risky investment. Some prices have only now recovered to the levels seen at the 2008 crash, whereas in the UK, prices have roughly doubled since then.
As of the latest available data, Spain has approximately 3.8 million vacant homes, representing about 14% of the country’s total housing stock. So, the current property prices and rental rates are pretty crazy.
Last point — are the Spanish racist? I think they are, to some extent. For context, my family is Jewish, and I’ve had to endure a lot of anti-Jewish sentiment, especially during the Eurovision period when tensions flared over Gaza. Many Spaniards were furious about Israel’s entry, but at the same time, they’re often very anti-Muslim, particularly towards Moroccans.
I had an experience on the street recently: I said to a Spanish female friend that the Muslim women with their hijabs and colorful clothing looked wonderful. Her response? “How can they look nice with their hair covered?” It’s a strange mix of hostility towards Jews, yet a love for Gaza. Go figure.
They also make fun of Northern Europeans — the way we dress, the socks and sandals jokes — and they laugh at older men for it. What they don’t realize is that in northern Europe, sweaty feet without socks is a nightmare!
It all feels very tribal — and ironic, considering they often turn against the very people who keep the economy moving.
One thing I’ve always appreciated about London is that no one cares who you are — Black, White, Chinese, Indian — you’re just part of the city. In contrast, the Spanish can sometimes be a bit full of themselves. And in Andalucía, they don’t always seem to recognize the rich cultural mix they have from the Moors and the Romany people. They think it’s all 100% Spanish, when in fact their culture has been shaped by so many different influences.
M (to HD) 28-5 absolutely correct …and how can you take part in local culture if you don’t learn the language…I live in one of the “white villages” and there is so much going on especially in the summer and so much you miss out on if you don’t speak the language…and the Spanish in this area are very tolerant about mistakes…and very helpful to correct you and explain …love it
HH (to HD) 28-5: I feel you’ve rather overreplied! I wasn’t talking at all about the housing problem. But I have to say I totally agree with the Spanish locals. There are far too many tourists on the mainland and the islands. We are all fed up with them. You have to stay away from city centres as the prices have shot up on everything. I can’t remember the last time I went into Màlaga centre, something I used to do regularly 15 or 20 years ago. It’s just not pleasant now. A simple coffee or an ice cream now costs 4 times as much as it used to. All my Spanish friends say the same.
I still have to disagree with you on the use of the word guiri, I myself use it from time to time. And finally, Andaluz folk have a love-hate relationship with Muslim/Arabic people. The Arabic culture is embedded here in the South. We have a large Muslim community in the town where I live, working, running businesses, living side by side with everyone else. As for the Jewish matter, the highest Spanish public vote on the recent Eurovision song contest went to the Israeli contestant. So race made no difference at all.
I don’t think there is any more racism here than in other countries, specially amongst younger people under 50. Yes, there may be amongst the older generations who never had the opportunity to travel much but that also applies to most cultures.
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This article link was also posted:
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2024/12/17/shut-up-foreigner-locals-in-spain-clash-over-anti-guiri-artwork-as-graffiti-in-sevilla-vows-to-vomit-out-tourists/
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Healing Madeira 